Percentage of Socioeconomic Numbers and API for SFUSD Schools (edit this)

15 Responses to “Percentage of Socioeconomic Numbers and API for SFUSD Schools”

1. Caroline Says:
   November 30th, 2006 at 10:05 am e

   That’s because the strong correlation between high achievement and a high number of Asian students outweighs the usual correlation between socioeconomic level and achievement. Low-income Asian students still tend to be high academic performers, in contrast to low-income students of any other ethnicity, who tend to be underperformers.

   This particular situation in which ethnicity outweighs income only applies in school districts (and schools) with a high percentage of Asian students, needless to say, so it’s not part of the national discussion about the correlation between income level and achievement. Demographics like SFUSD’s are still unusual on the national scene.

   Disclaimer: I’m not checking Kim’s figures before commenting. I am already familiar with this as the overall situation.

2. Caroline Says:
   November 30th, 2006 at 10:06 am e

   That’s because the strong correlation between high achievement and a high number of Asian students outweighs the usual correlation between socioeconomic level and achievement. Low-income Asian students still tend to be high academic performers, in contrast to low-income students of any other ethnicity, who tend to be underperformers.

   This particular situation in which ethnicity outweighs income only applies in school districts (and schools) with a high percentage of Asian students, needless to say, so it’s not part of the national discussion about the correlation between income level and achievement. Demographics like SFUSD’s are still unusual on the national scene.

   Disclaimer: I’m not checking Kim’s figures before commenting. I am already familiar with this as the overall situation.

3. KC Jones Says:
   December 1st, 2006 at 2:27 pm e

   Interesting figures, Kim. I pulled them into Excel and did some charting and number crunching that I posted on sfschools. Basically, I agree that the correlation is weak. But I do not think that you can conclude that using SD is a bad idea, or that using race in admissions is an effective way to help faltering AA and Latino students.

4. Caroline Says:
   December 1st, 2006 at 6:53 pm e

   My understanding from just generally reading up on the connection between SES and achievement is that the correlation is very, very strong without the confounding factor of a large number of Asians. High-SES whites outperform low-SES whites; ditto with African-Americans and Latinos. That pattern apparently doesn’t follow with Asians.

5. KWillets Says:
   December 2nd, 2006 at 7:58 pm e

   It’s interesting that the poverty rate in San Francisco is 10-12%, yet no school has an SD percentage that low, and many have vastly higher numbers.

   Perhaps the SD criteria are not a good fit, or self-reporting is not accurate.

6. Caroline Says:
   December 3rd, 2006 at 9:02 am e

   Public-school families don’t reflect the overall SES of San Francisco. I’m sure that many of the higher-SES residents don’t have kids at home, plus San Francisco has a high rate of families who choose private school — obviously the higher-SES families.

   (I’m one of many public school advocates perenially trying to point out to them that going private is not necessary because their kids can get a good, safe education in SFUSD schools, and in the context of Leftinsf, choosing public is the populist, progressive, democratic, non-elitist, non-exclusive, non-racist way to go.)

7. ericmar Says:
   December 3rd, 2006 at 1:42 pm e

   thanks for the work on this kim.
   i disagree with kc and do feel that this info implies that school desegregation and equity plans than only address socio-economic disadvantage are inadequate, especially in extremely diverse setting like SF. and, i agree with Caroline to a certain degree. but what she leaves out is that Asians and Pacific Islander students are a very diverse group, that need to be looked at much more complexly than simply lumping them together.
   English learners, Samoans and other pacific islanders, South East Asian groups and others within the API umbrella need to be looked at more complexly as our school district is starting to do.

8. Caroline Says:
   December 3rd, 2006 at 2:02 pm e

   Thanks, Eric — I do know that, so I really meant overall. It’s a complex topic. When I worked at the San Jose Mercury News we tried to do the “neighborhood journalism” route for a while with zoned sections that got in the most minute local news, including things like lists of valedictorians and spelling bee champions. The instant those lists started, it became evident that every single name on all of them was Vietnamese (a significant population in San Jose, but not enough to justify EVERY top achiever being Vietnamese). On the other hand, the Cambodian population is also significant, and those names weren’t on those high-achiever lists.

   A reporter once tried to explore that whole issue for an article, but it was just too complex and touchy to pursue. The article would really have ticked off the old-line Italian families (growers and cannery owners originally) who had always dominated San Jose, too.

9. jash Says:
   December 4th, 2006 at 10:54 am e

   the thread is going the right direction. why are poor asians excelling at public school and the rest of our ethnicities are not? that is the real question. what responsibility or affect could any public institution have on this delta? is a pure work ethic thing and we are performing an exercise in futility to try and constantly tweak the system to make up for folks that simply don’t value a good education?

10. Nakayama Says:
    December 5th, 2006 at 1:10 pm e

    Question:

    Clarendon Elementary School has the lowest poverty rate in the entire city (only 13%)…

    … and it is also the most difficult elementary school to gain entrance to in the entire city.

    What’s the connection here?

    Do wealthier and more influential parents somehow get a backdoor entry into the school? I know one of Willie Brown’s mistresses had her kids in Claire Lillenthal school (another prestigious school) a few years ago. I’m concerned that influential people may be getting preferential treatment in our schools.

11. Nakayama Says:
    December 5th, 2006 at 1:14 pm e

    “why are poor asians excelling at public school and the rest of our ethnicities are not?”

    Simple answer: Most Asian kids live at home with BOTH of their parents. The parents are mostly immigrants, and hence they take life seriously and don’t take any of the luxuries we have in America here for granted.

12. Nakayama Says:
    December 5th, 2006 at 1:23 pm e

    Dear Eric Mar,
    Since I see you posting here on this forum, I want to express my OUTRAGE that you and the board have voted to scratch the 90-year-old JROTC program. You have slapped the face of working-class children here in San Francisco, who have benefited greatly from this program.

    Next year, at Arts Fair, when we don’t have enough volunteers to put up booths because JROTC volunteers are no longer around to help, I’m going to make a public appeal to all of you peace-loving leftists to come out and help us set up the show in place of the junior cadets. I expect my request will be answered with stone silence.

13. Nestwife Says:
    December 10th, 2006 at 8:44 am e

    You’ve mistakenly attributed Gateway Charter High School’s performance to Leadership Charter High School, and left Gateway off the list entirely.

    The correct data is:
    29% - Gateway Charter High, API - 762
    47% - Leadership Charter High, API - 717

14. kimknox Says:
    December 10th, 2006 at 12:57 pm e

    Thank you. I actually listed Leadership twice-once at 47% as well. I corrected the entry to reflect Gateway.

15. OTeacher Says:
    July 5th, 2007 at 8:33 pm e

    Asians performing well regardless of SES (supposedly an ethic/ value thing)- Just a few things to think about regarding this issue:

    1) Many Asian families came to the United States as immigrants by choice. When immigrants come by choice, they often come from a higher SES in their own country: more highly skilled/ educated/ with more resources. Obviously, that’s less true for Vietnamese/ Cambodian Refugees. They also often come into a well established and supportive community making it easier to get the resources they need. Both of these things support families without necessarily increasing their SES. So, even though they may be low SES, they may not be experiencing the same circumstances that other low SES families may be facing.

    2) And I know this is controversial but it has to be brought up… Asians’ experience with racism/ prejudice/ discrimination is different. I’m not saying it’s more or less, just different.
    The most common stereotype of Asian school children is that they’re super smart (which leads to other problems: frequent suicide, unrealistic expectations, pressure to achieve far beyond their peers).
    The most common stereotype of Latino school children is that they are lazy/ their parents don’t care/ they will drop out.
    The most common stereotype of African American school children is that they’re so far behind their peers when they walk in the door that all you can do is move them forward but never actually catch them up/ their parents are bad influences on them or don’t care/ they won’t live past the age of 20.
    All groups experience racism and they’re all affected, this is just an example of the typical stereotypes of school children.
    The effect of these stereotypes on the children is obvious- and they ARE affected by them, as early as first grade.
    The really scary effect is on teachers. Teachers (and I’m one of them) all believe that all children can achieve and hold equal expectations for all their students. However, anyone born and raised in the U.S. has been exposed to these stereotypes all their lives and, from time to time, even the best teachers will accept failure because of a child’s background. At the same time, they often will push a student to succeed when their failure doesn’t fit their background (a failing Asian doesn’t make sense).
    There are obviously other factors as well- I’m certainly not blaming teachers, I just think we need to be aware of the society in which we all live- even in beautiful Northern California!
    I’m not giving answers and it’s not that simple, I just want to offer a word of caution when it comes to suggesting that one group has a certain set of values.

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