We haven’t really talked much about the school board’s decision to pitch the JROTC (Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps) from the San Francisco schools. I get that there are some reasonable arguments for it, but I believe that our schools shouldn’t support a program that prepares students for a job they will not be allowed to do if they’re gay. I also think that if we’re going to train our students to fight wars, we should also find ways to train them to fight fot the planet, or for equality and justice. Imagine a Junior Conservation Officer Training Corps, or a Junior Civil Rights Advocate Training Corps. Almost certainly better for society, but laughable in the face of the military-industrial complex.
Beyond the abstract, as Eric Mar demonstrates, JROTC seems to train students to be prejucided and violent. Mara Kubrin, a courageous Lowell student, presented a petition to do away with JROTC in the SF schools. Here are some of the messages she received:
Hey you stupid hatin azz bitch!!!Better watch ur fkn bk ya dumbazz whore!If this is what we end up with, I’m even more glad we’ve gotten government-sponsored training for this crap out of our schools.…God you know how many people you have made cry & how many people hate you! & wanna Beat you up & Slap the Shit out of you!!!!
DAMN HOE U BETTER LISTEN UP… I FEEL SORRY 4 UR MOTHER 4 GIVEN BIRTH 2 YA UGLY ASS… U BETTER FUCKIN WATCH UR PIMPLE ASS BAK BEFORE PPL GO JUMPIN UR ASS UP SHIET HA…
Eric also has a great collection of links on the subject.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:16 am
The thuggish messages on Mara’s Myspace are deplorable. But that is leading some “progressive” opponents of JROTC, in other public forums, to blast all 1600 JROTC students as violent thugs. I vigorously dispute that characterization.
Unfortunately, thuggish and threatening messages on Myspace are not uncommon, and are hardly limited to defenders of JROTC. I would challenge the automatic assumption that JROTC LEADS to that behavior (I’m sure you can find some troubled kids in progressive havens like those supposedly enlightened private schools engaging in it too). And all progressives should be challenging the few who are publicly accusing all 1600 JROTC members of being thugs.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:15 am
Eric Mar says “..they pale in comparison to the threats that students are facing right now, apparently from JROTC cadets and their supporters.”
Are we to assume that these wicked comments made to a Lowell student came exclusively from JROTC members?? Come on now. It is extremely irresponsible for Mar to
make this implication and it’s equally reprehensible that Sasha would make the same assumption. Shame on you.
Please stop waving your middle finger at the US military establishment and using the high school kids of our city as your pedestal.
November 29th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
the lowell student professing 800 signatures to oust jrotc was interesting but the student rep on the boe mentioned how over 50% of the student body wanted to keep the program. i think this was a really sad message to send to the kids of sfusd. your opinion doesn’t matter. we know what’s best for you and we are going to tell you. the worst part about the ill-timed vote was the ousting boe members that were allowed to vote at all. what a shamelful disgrace to the democratic process and boe’ everywhere.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
The head student of the JROTC program at Galileo high school is openly gay, and many gay students participate in the program in San Francisco. More than 200 JROTC students attended the board meeting and several of them openly wept when the board made its decision to abolish the program.
I have two children at Marina middle school now, and one of them will probably be attending Galileo in the fall. The schools are being bled dry in terms of funding, but they also seriously lack volunteers from the community.
I wonder if you Greeny-Lefties would be willing to do some volunteer work and stepp in to replace ROTC? I doubt it, because most Greenies don’t have children. You can live in your little ivory tower worlds and not have to deal with the problems that our children face.
More than 200 JROTC students attended the board meeting, and many of them openly wept after the decision was made.
The school board has no plans to replace ROTC with another program.
In short, our children with a big losers because of the decision.
November 29th, 2006 at 9:38 pm
Another thing…
I found it quite revealing that in all the photos from the meeting that appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle, the working-class kids, mostly Hispanic and Asian, were the ones defending JROTC…
… whereas the protesters were middle class, and upper-middle-class white kids.
Why was that?
November 29th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
1) even if the head of JROTC at Galileo is gay, he certainly can’t become a member of the US Armed FOrces, the sponsor of JROTC.
2) I absolutely believe we need to do more for our schools. We need after school programs to do all sorts of things. I don’t believe that learning to be a soldier is one of those things. Yes, let’s learn from the attraction of the program, and make sure we integrate the things that keep students involved. But let’s create a program that can play a positive role in our city.
3) As long as the US military does stuff like thisand this, they can just get the hell out of town.
November 29th, 2006 at 10:45 pm
I had to get past my own concerns about the military and listen to the kids to decide that JROTC was benefiting kids in SFUSD.
But now I have to note — kids themselves say that in SFUSD schools, JROTC is extremely gay-friendly, and in fact offers gay students a refuge from the bullying they would be more likely to get in regular P.E. classes.
Now I note that Green Party activists are expressing open hostility to School of the Arts, a gay-friendly, diverse, tolerant arts school. There is NO rationale for the Greens to oppose an arts school — in fact, supporting arts is part of the Green philosophy. But SOTA is strongly identified as being gay-friendly. Perhaps that’s where the Green antipathy to SOTA comes from — does the Green Party have an anti-gay viewpoint?
November 29th, 2006 at 11:04 pm
I can’t speak for the Greens, and I’m also not fully informed on the SoTA thing, other than that I ride by it on my way up O’Shaughnessy fairly often.
It seems really unlikely to me, though, that Mark Sanchez is anti-gay, and I’m willing to bet that neither Ross Mirkarimi or John Rizzo is either.
Ralph Nader, on the other hand…
Fundamentally, though, I think the idea that being anti-ROTC is anti-gay is a ridiculous one. Being “gay-friendly” should be a requirement for school activities, not cause for a gold star. But ROTC prepares gay kids for a career they cannot have. And even college-level ROTC policy is that gay students cannot be members.
December 1st, 2006 at 9:01 am
Am I wrong, or does there seem to be a major disconnect between those who support JROTC and those who don’t? On one hand you have parents and students rallying around the program. On the other, you have the progressives saying “yes, but the US military is anti-gay…”
When I read the comments on this board, I’m amazed at how far apart the two camps really are.
On a separate note, I think it would be VERY interesting to know how many anit-JROTC people actually have children. I’m guessing that most people in the anti-JROTC camp are not parents.
December 1st, 2006 at 3:53 pm
“I think it would be VERY interesting to know how many anit-JROTC people actually have children. I’m guessing that most people in the anti-JROTC camp are not parents.”
You guessed right.
Those of us with children in San Francisco’s public schools, those of us working in the trenches to make the schools better, are appreciative of any program we can get into our schools. JROTC has been a blessing for San Francisco schools.
December 5th, 2006 at 9:59 am
To finish my question with a comment…
As a parent myself, I don’t think it is anyone else’s responsibility to decide what is best for my child. And I would never be so presumptuous as to tell you what’s best for your child.
Period. End of story.
December 18th, 2006 at 9:30 am
to clarify, all of the threats directed at me were from jrotc students. yes, derogatory messages on myspace are somewhat common, but in addition to messages someone posted a bulletin with personal information and a picture of me with a caption claiming that the author was not responsible for “damages resulting from this graphic…including but not limited to those that are inflamatory, derogatory, defamatory, as well as any physical or mental damages resulting from violence.”
December 18th, 2006 at 9:33 am
Thanks, mk. I know this shit is hard, and I admire your courage for putting up with it.
January 4th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
I was a cadet in JROTC and I support what Mara is doing. It is true that cadets in JROTC are more violent and crude to those who oppose the program. Just ask the cadets that were enrolled in the program who quit after only a year or two. We all should respect both sides of the argument.
January 4th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
JROTC does discriminate people, although not gay people. Seniors harass the freshmen all the time. When you’re out there watching them practice during after school hours, I’m sure you can witness the cadet leaders hazing and harassing the freshmen team members… Talk to the impartial teens who have enrolled in the program and they will tell you that this is true.
January 13th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
I understand that cadets “love” their team and become close like family, but I fully support removing JROTC from our schools — not for statements that it is anti-gay, or such, but for two different reasons:
1. the SF school district is in financial straits right now. I am no school board member, but it is quite obvious to me that the money for education is drying up. First, arts and music funding were slashed. Let me ask cadets: do you realize that people love the arts as much as you love your team? That leads to a second point: if JROTC is supposedly not pro-military, where does that lead? Apparently… nowhere. JROTC will not give you a career, unless you choose an honorable life a soldier. On the other hand, a career in the arts or music is unlikely, but doubtless, full of potential.
2. this leads to point two: we don’t need military influence in schools. JROTC portrays the military in a false light - mainly that most kids come off the program thinking that the true military has the same kind of structure that their JROTC program had. The truth? It doesn’t. As much as the admire the heroism of the soldiers who fight for our country, it is unorganized, and vicious. Cadets do not kill enemies at school. As for pro-JROTC members who state that JROTC cadets are not influenced to enter the military as often, look at statistics: do more JROTC members join the military that non-JROTC members? It is logical to think they will.
JROTC has no place in a public school. If you truly adore the military, please consider attending a military school.
June 5th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
I THE BATTALION COMMANDER OF MY JROTC PROGRAM, AND I DO NOT KNOW THAT IT IS NOT A PROGRAM THAT MAKES YOU JOIN THE MILITARY… I JUST WANTED TO SAY TO THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS PAGE, HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE “DON’T ASK DONT TELL POLICY”?????????? LOOK IT UP AND THEN START TALKING!
June 5th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
I THINK THAT C/LTC VENCES IS RIGHT!
June 6th, 2007 at 6:59 am
We live in San Francisco where we believe that everyone has a right to speak their truth. And the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy is that as long as you hide who you love and the life that you have created with that very special person, you can be in the military.
And many of us within this community called San Francisco say that’s too high a price to say to someone who could be far from home, in danger and without a network of people who truly know and accept them for who they are.
Life is too short (especially in the military) to deny your truth.
October 20th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
The Washington volleyball team made threats to the Lowell one. Let’s phase out the volleyball program!
How can one say that JROTC directly forced its students threaten someone who took away their program? Because kids fail to show restraints at times online, it does not mean that they mean it and it definitely does not mean JROTC had any effect on them in those areas. We can say all of the person’s extracurricular activities, may it be Model UN, football, Astronomy club, volunteer work at the soup kitchen, have an equal effect on them.
Speaking of football, tackle football is more violent than JROTC ever will be. People get injured in football on a weekly basis. But of course, it’s not thought that football should not be in our schools - it’s an American tradition! It’s in our culture. It needs to be in our schools. Yes, violent football needs to be in our schools.
You know, quite honestly - think about it. All the people who oppose JROTC. Have you guys visited a program? Have you seen the district-wide competitions? No, you shun them away because you think the military is embedded in these kids’ lives and you don’t want to deal with that. You meet these kids, especially the ones who have been in this program for four years, and you find out how amazing they are, how self-confident and sure of themselves. But when people are opposed to a program, they put a blindfold on, they don’t see the potential it has to create a better generation.
Greens and lefties are always proclaiming student voice and youth power. JROTC gives youth power in their own communities. They become leaders - from being leaders at their schools or communities, they do great things. They give students voice. Heck, they save people’s lives! Now that I can directly link JROTC to.
October 26th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
you all need to shut the fuck up. the military isnt as glorious as you think. do you all want to join the military and want to take a life thats not to much diffrent from one of you friends or family, do you want to be brain washed in fighting, discriminating against others at such a young age, do you want to die in the war thats taking place know. your all fucking messed up. ROTC is a way military recruiter advertizes the military by handing out items with military logos on them,recently at my school a student that that graduated last year was killed in the war he was 20 and a newly wed with a baby girl. about or more than 50000student are in rotc nationwide, 11000 students are in military academies about 3 dozen of them were in rotc and some where in middle school cadet corps the rest are low incomed and choose the military as a last resort. so think whatever you what about rotc.
February 27th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Listen up i am a SSG. itn the corps of cadets and i think that you are a bitch you should have to go to hell and on the military not letting gay people in i think that is good but if there are eny i think thay should stich to the “Dont ask Dont tell” rule. You are a woman who needs to get a life. And stop sitting on your tofu eatting ass and complaning about stuff.
April 17th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I think its a shame. Being part of a JROTC program for going on my fourth and final year, I have found it the sole reason I enjoy school nowadays with all the pressure on me for AP classes and college approaching fast. The program is like a relief, it allows me to be both creative and prepares me for public speaking, leadership positions, and has teams that are just as difficult and take just as much if not more work than mainstream things like football or baseball. In fact, I was on my school football team, and it is no where NEAR as rewarding as the Armed Drill Team at my school is. (I am now the commander of that team).
As far as the program being used to entice students into the military goes, that is a common misconception I feel needs to be addressed. I have never, in any way, shape, or form, been enticed to join the military by the JROTC program. Ever. All this talk about the program being a gateway for the military is coming from people who have not even participated in the program, armchair debaters who haven’t done their research.
In response to this “Christopher” guy down at the bottom of the page:
c/SSG, behavior like that is the very reason people have issues with the JROTC program. Statements like that are immature, and personally from the way your comment was made I feel you probably don’t deserve your position in your program.
Anybody who read his post, don’t judge the program based upon the responses generated by cadets who exhibit bad behavior, basically its one of those “You can judge a book by reading one page” type of scenarios.
As far as gay’s not being allowed to enter the military goes, there is no regulation for that.
“Don’t ask, don’t tell” was a policy invented to prevent discrimination from the more immature people in the military who felt that gays should not be allowed. Before this existed, people who were openly gay were admitted into the military, however after an incident that occurred in the Navy resulting in a gay sailor being throw off a ship, the rule was initiated. Do not judge the military, or anything related to it based upon the behavior of a few people among thousands. It makes no sense.
Training JROTC cadets to fight wars…
I will be honest, I laughed at that. I haven’t in all my years in the program been taught a single thing pertaining to fighting anything. I have however been taught on a massive scale life saving methods, how to handle situations with peer pressure, how to avoid dangerous situations and how to allocate priorities, with school and college planning always the top of the list.
As far as a “Junior Conservation Officer Training Corps, or a Junior Civil Rights Advocate Training Corps” goes, there are hundreds of those programs out there. It seems to me you are a little closed minded about many things and are buying into the liberal media a little too much, I recommend finding multiple sources instead of watching and reading the same biased news every day.
- c/2LT Dustin J.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Wow, I agree with your idea to create other training corps. But don’t knock JROTC. I am in ROTC in SC.. And I think that it is a great program. It’s a different experience for everyone. It’s not meant for everyone..
June 6th, 2008 at 1:15 am
I think cadet Dustin up there had a good point to make. I am a secretary at a high school that has the JROTC program, and I frequently have to drop off papers to their staff office. The cadets are always polite, friendly, and energetic. It is often a relief speaking to one of these cadets, because they actually care about school, and in this program the instructors are very fair, and the cadets follow their lead very well.
In response to another fault posted above, if the instructor at a JROTC school is indeed an instructor, he has had at least 20 years military experience before instructing. Therefore, he was indeed allowed into the military as a gay man. This is an example of the don’t ask don’t tell policy at work.
In regards to hazing, this is done every day in other programs, I find it interesting that the one that from my observations does it the least was picked out of the bunch. It is actually documented in a book I read a couple years back that High School Football, and Cheerleading are the programs that participate in these activities the most overall.
The fact remains that as Dustin above posted, the JROTC program is not geared toward military life, rather to prepare a student for college by teaching them self discipline and organization. The most military thing I have ever seen or heard the program do is the drill teams, and do you honestly believe that marching qualifies as military training? I apologize but when I was in high school I participated in the marching band, and these cadets do the same movements, with the only difference being they are less fluid and more snappy.
Liberal society today is a killer, I’m all for ending this war and global warming and pro gay rights, but things like this are just ridiculous.
One more thing in response to the person talking about school funds above:
- The JROTC program is paid for solely by the government, schools pay nothing.
October 5th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Do you hear what you people are saying? It doesn’t matter if the head of galileo is gay, he can’t enter the forces anyways? WHO SAID HE WANTED TO JOIN THE FORCES?!!! im in the program and no on I know wants or likes the war or even thought about joining. GET your facts. 1)JROTC doesn’t send kids to the army regardless if you were gay or not.
2) We have our own opinions, the decision to kick JROTC out was selfish.
GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS, WE DONT WANT TO GO TO WAR, WE AREN’T BEING FORCED TO GO TO WAR, AND WHO CARES IF WE ARE GAY OR NOT, none of the kids at school do.
YOU PEOPLE ARE OBESSSED, and now taking away a program everybody loves?! and after school programs come on now, if JROTC was gone I don’t think kids would join one of those “clubs” they have, thats the whole reason why we joined JROTC in the first place, parents always think kids like everything the school provides.. well think again.
October 7th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Judy,
I agree with you. I am a supporter of Eric Quezada, running in my district, but I told him it pisses me off that the JROTC now has to go without the school district finding a suitable replacement program, which it promised.
As much as I hate this war and militarism in general, I saw a bunch of JROTC kids cleaning up Mission St. gutters two years ago, and was thoroughly impressed.
I don’t see anybody else out there volunteering to do this kind of grunt work in the community.